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Hi, this is Bob Kennedy, about to put you in contact with the world of people, places,

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and ideas.

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Through WVC's unique electronic systems, you are in contact with the world of excitement

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on Bob Kennedy Contact.

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And tonight, tonight, when we again get into what is consistently one of the most controversial

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topics we deal with on contact, the subject is UFO, unidentified flying objects, sightings

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across our country and the world that some allege come from outer space.

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This subject, above all, seems to capture the fascination of our listeners and cause our

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mailbag to swell noticeably after each show.

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And it too would seem that we never lack a couple of first person reports for you.

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And tonight is no different.

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Ahead, you'll hear an interview with a New Mexico policeman who a few days ago saw an

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object take off and leave in its wake burning grass and impressions on the earth.

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We'll also talk with a cattle farmer from New York State who earlier this month not only

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saw one of these objects, but claims that he had a conversation with two little fellows

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who came from within the thing.

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It's quite a story and one that we'll hear more of later.

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But first, let's meet our guests in the studio.

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Both names you should recognize.

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Walt Webb has been with us before.

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Walt is a member of NiCAP and as soon as Streeter Stewart manages to get in from our new studio,

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we'll welcome Streeter Stewart, of course, of WVC News, and also a member of the National

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Investigating Committee on Aerial Phenomenon.

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And later on our long distance line from his home in Virginia, we'll have Major Donald

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Kehoe, who's the head of NiCAP as our special guest.

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But first off, Walt, while we're waiting for Streeter to join us, can we start locally

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before we move out to New Mexico and then finally up to New York State?

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And I understand lately we've been having some sightings in the Lawrence area for one.

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As you were telling me, as before we went on the air in some other areas around Massachusetts,

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but first off, and Streeter has joined us, welcome Streeter.

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Let's talk a little bit about this sighting in the Lawrence area.

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Now there have been many sightings up there recently.

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Have there not, Walter?

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There have been, Bob, and I think Streeter is going to be able to fill us in more on

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the Lawrence case than I could.

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But there have been sightings up in New Hampshire, in Massachusetts again.

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And of course there have been these reports out in New Mexico.

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The recent sighting wave started out there.

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What kind of sightings have there been up in New Hampshire?

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Well these are, as always, this is a very interesting thing to me.

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I'm in the process of pinpointing these sightings on a map going back about 10 years and seeing

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if there's any concentration at all.

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There seems to be a concentration of UFO reports in the Lakin Mountain country, especially

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around the White Mountains.

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You said a recent sighting wave.

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Is this actually the case?

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Has there been a wave of sightings?

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There seems to be, ever since the April 24th New Mexico sighting out there at Secorro,

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and I understand we're going to be hearing the patrolmen on the phone.

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But this seemed to start a wave that began out in the west and has moved to the east

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coast.

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Now this is recent around here in New England in this section of the country.

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Streeter, let's move on to Lawrence.

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We got some calls Friday night about some sightings out there.

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How vivid were the sightings?

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How accurate were some of the reports that you got?

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Well evidently they were very vivid and very exciting.

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There were a number of adults who made the sightings and a number of young people.

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Young people who knew a lot about astronomy so that they knew what the stars and the planets

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look like on an ordinary night and on some unusually clear nights such as we have had

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recently.

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They sighted an object in the sky that was described as appearing like a football, being

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predominantly red in color, but at times changing to other colors, yellow, green, purple, and

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even white.

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And the reports seemed to agree that this object was rather high in the sky and that

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it would seem to hover over a particular place, then move and hover over that place, then

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move to a third place and sometimes even come back to what appeared to be the original

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sight over which it began to hover.

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Then it would disappear and on Saturday night I was told that it was then visible so my

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son and my daughter rushed up to Lawrence and got up there I think around 11 o'clock.

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Unfortunately by the time they arrived the thing had disappeared and I was hoping that

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I could get some first hand information from them as to what they thought it might be.

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And there have been sightings of this one thing on more than one night and I think this

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is rather...

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And by more than one person as I understand.

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Oh yes, by a group of people, a number of people and people that lived in different

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localities in that same area.

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Streeter, a little bit later I'd like to hear the interview that you did with the policemen

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in New Mexico who saw that object take off from the ground, but before we get into that

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in case some of our listeners are certainly not hearing about UFO for the first time but

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maybe hearing about it here on contact.

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And we always talk about the controversy of UFO.

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Now why is this... why is there this controversy and I guess it's based around the fact that

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there seems to be a great difference of opinion between NICAP members and the Air Force.

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Why do you think there is this difference of opinion and since we talked about it the

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last time has there been any closer meeting of the minds between NICAP and the Air Force?

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Well I think in the first place there is a difference of opinion simply because we are

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all human beings and each one of us have a different outlook.

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For example if I go fishing with you Bob and I catch a pretty good size fish the story

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I'm going to tell about that fish is going to be different from what you're going to

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tell about it if you didn't catch it and if you come back and report it.

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I'm probably going to tell you that it was a great big one and if we're in doubt about

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it I'm going to want it to be a rainbow trout and to you it may be just an ordinary fish,

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maybe a big sucker or something of the kind.

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And I think this is one reason you have the differences of opinion.

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On the other hand there sometimes is not enough evidence to pinpoint what an object is and

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as a result it has to be classified as an unidentified flying object and the difference

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of opinion there is on an interpretation of what do you think it might have been.

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Now I know that in the world of flying saucers by Dr. Donald Menzel of Harvard University

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and incidentally I have attended some of his classes when he discussed unidentified flying

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objects to his students.

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He's been against un-contact and the last time we talked about UFO he was on the telephone

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he might be listening again tonight and before the evening is over he might be on the phone

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again this evening.

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Yes he has written at least two books on unidentified flying objects specifically on these unidentified

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flying objects and the last one is the world of flying saucers and he discusses

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some of these very controversial cases and he gives what he considers to be evidence

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in some of these sightings but as I read the book I find that it is very much filled with

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the word probable and probability or likely and for example when he is discussing the

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Mantel case in one place he says that it probably was a giant skyhook balloon and he seems to

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give evidence tracing the reports of whatever this object was which seemed to indicate in

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parallel the wind currents that would carry one of these giant skyhook balloons along

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in Kentucky from Ohio and then in another place in the book he says if it were not a

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skyhook balloon then it was probably they were chasing the planet Venus.

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Gentlemen before we continue along this line I'll ask one rather basic question and then

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we'll talk about the tape that you made with the gentleman in the Mexico street or listen

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to that and then we'll get up to New York State and hear from that fellow who says he

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saw little people come out of the ship.

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Do both of you feel that these sightings some of them could be from outer space?

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Walt?

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Well, yes Bob after interviewing people including scientists I might add for about 12 years this

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is the conclusion I've come to it's incredible fantastic but I do believe that some of these

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sightings detail viewings of space ships.

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Straight or how do you feel?

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Yes, I believe that there is a possibility that some of these may be from outer space

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and I base this on having read very widely as to the possibility of there being hundreds

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of millions of planets that might be inhabited similar to our earth in the universe and with

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all of our advances in space science if there is life on other planets as some of our greatest

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astronomical authorities say there is very likely and if their civilization started earlier

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than ours there is no doubt that they have advanced beyond us and so they are not just

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in the space infancy as we are and it may be that they have found many forces in the

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universe that we have not yet even dreamed of which enable them to come here to the world

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and to survey it and to contact and to look at it and for that reason I believe that some

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of these may very well be from outer space.

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Tonight on Contact our topic is UFO unidentified flying objects. Our guests here in the studio

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Streeter Stewart and Walter Webb. Streeter before we play this a beeper interview you

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did with the gentleman in New Mexico can you give us just a little bit of background for

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it?

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Yes Bob I read that there had been a sighting out in New Mexico at a place called Samora

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by a policeman and I was intrigued by the vividness of this account and to the similarity

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of other accounts that I had read about in books and I determined that I would have a

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first hand report from this man by telephone I made a long distance call and this is what

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he told me and here it is.

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I was a seasonal or a reckless driver going up south by a street. Up to the time I came

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to this little road I heard this big roar blast. We got a dynamite check to the west

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there I thought I'd investigate maybe I thought maybe blow it up so I started up that real

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fast. I have ways to it. I stuck my head out the window out of the car and I think despite

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it being an object I didn't know what it was at that time I thought it was a vehicle

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that turned over. I started out the real fast so I could maybe help the people in the car.

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I went up to it closed about 200 feet. I went 200 feet from it. I got out of the car and

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started to hear it when the heart just staked the noise again the same noise and the flames

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coming under it. I got scared I started running back I ran about 50 feet from it. I pulled

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myself to the ground to hide. After a word of sound I didn't hear the noise no more. I

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just stepped it up and I had to see what was happening. It was real quiet then and I thought

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it was quite an object just to take out towards the west there to smooth out. Did it leave

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any kind of a vapor trail when it took off? No, I didn't. Just a quiet little trail and

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it did make a roar at the time you approached it. A big roar, yes it did. And you could

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actually see the flame in under it? Yes, I did. Was it standing on legs? Yes, there

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were legs and I called it legs, yes. And you thought there were four of these? Apparently

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there were on the markings on the ground. There were four legs, yes. What were the words

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you examined it later on? Yes, we did. We went back to the police to make the police.

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After it took off did you go back to get help? No, I ran to help from the car and he came

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on out. I see. And when you went back to examine it what did you find near where it had been

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parked? Well, a bush is there around there. Greenwood and grass was still burning. So,

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I thought it was markings on the ground, prints and everything helped. There were prints

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as if it had been standing on these legs. Right. Did the legs go up into the object

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when it took off? Did you notice that? No, I didn't notice it was that. And after it

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got into the air did the roar stop? Yes, there were when it came straight up. There you have

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an interview with policeman Lani Zamora in New Mexico, a gentleman who saw something,

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people calling it a UFO. Well, I guess it would be a UFO. One way or the other, it's

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not a street or it's an unidentified flying object. That is for sure. You know, when

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I heard about this and read the report it struck me that could it possibly be a prototype

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of some sort of a lunar vehicle because over at the museum very often you'll see a show

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in which they have one of these things on stilts, around legs that would move around

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the moon. Any possibility it could have been that? Well, Bob, the description of this would

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be somewhat similar to the lunar module and it did have these stilt legs and so on as

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some of these may have. But I have information from the space agency and I keep pretty well

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informed on all of their developments and this has not been flown yet, it has not been

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under power at all yet and I'm sure they wouldn't keep it secret. They have no reason to because

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they are informing the public of what they have done and what they are doing in all fields

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of our attempt to get to the moon and I just don't believe it was. Fantastic. We'll be

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talking about that sighting a little more as the program progresses but now I'd like

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to get to that interview with a 28-year-old dairy farmer from upstate New York. He lives

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in a town called Newark, New York and most important of all he has been raided by his

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neighbors as quiet, serious, hardworking and sober. His name is Gary Wilcox and we caught

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up with Mr. Wilcox earlier today in his barn. He had an extension phone out there and you'll

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notice the mooing. In the background we talked with him and we asked him where he was when

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he first sighted this UFO. 10 o'clock in the morning I was spreading the load of manure

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on a face field. I backed the barn there and I kept seeing this glittering thing. It was

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about a pretty long mile away I guess. Upon top of the hill there was nothing in view.

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I mean in a way it's all open ground and there's no icebox up there whether something

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reflected off of that. It looked just like a mirror shiner in my face and I was going

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up the top of that hill to see if I was ready to plow anyway and I drove on up with the

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tractor and as I got up there about 100 feet of this glistening thing I could see what it was.

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What did it look like as you got closer to it?

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I don't know. I got 100-200 yards from it there and I couldn't see nothing. There wasn't

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no shining or nothing but as I went closer I got within 100 feet before I saw anything.

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This is all I want to take off was about 100 feet and I couldn't see it. It was gone.

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But it looked like a wing tank to me at first. I'd seen them when I was in the service quite a bit.

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I had two tanks off these planes.

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So was it then kind of cigar shaped as these tip tanks are?

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More egg shaped than anything. It was about 20 foot long, 15 or 16 foot wide and about 4 foot deep.

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How close did you get to it?

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A couple inches. I was touching it for about 2 hours.

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What did the surface look like it was made out of?

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It was loom-dom colored, whitest colored. It had a whitest cast to it but it wasn't bright.

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It was shiny but it wasn't real bright. It was just like a dish or some kind of cooking dish really.

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But what it was.

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Now, did a door open before these people came out of it? How did they appear? How did you meet the little men?

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I don't know. I was feeling a little bit right there. Just getting ready to come back down, call the sheriff

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and see if something had fall off in the airplane.

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I was kind of wondering too because it was off the ground. It was about 4 foot off the ground and it had this idler noise.

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I don't know. Nothing happened. I was touching it there for a couple of minutes and I was just getting ready to go and come underneath it.

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I don't know. These two things or men or whatever they are came. They were about 4 foot high.

215
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I don't know what they are or who they were but they talked to me for about 2 hours up there.

216
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Do you could perfectly understand them?

217
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Yeah, they talk better English than you're talking.

218
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Did they talk with any kind of an accent?

219
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No, no accent or nothing. I spoke with Germans and Russians when I was in the service and nothing like any of them.

220
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And what do they have to tell you? What were some of the things they said? How did they address you?

221
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First thing they said was don't be alarmed. We have talked to people before.

222
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And they were questioning how I had seen them and stuff.

223
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They were quite concerned. I said I shouldn't have seen them within 100 feet or so.

224
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When I told them I saw them way down while I was spreading the noise, putting them a mile away, they were quite concerned.

225
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They said I shouldn't have seen them in a day time like that. That's why they were laying in a day time.

226
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Did they tell you what they were doing there?

227
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They said that they were traveling this hemisphere of this chip. They had each one had a tray in their hand.

228
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They had four grass and stuff. It was solid. It looked like they took the knife and cut it right out of the ground.

229
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It's the slab of it and each tray. That's what they were doing. They collected an organic material and stuff.

230
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Where do they say they were from?

231
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Well, I mean this sounds awful silly, I know, but they told me they were from what I know as a planet Mars.

232
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Every time they spoke of stuff, they referred it to it as I know or as we know here, like as we know Earth, as we know Mars and stuff like that.

233
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You sound like you find it rather hard to believe yourself.

234
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Well, I know. I was up there for two hours. I was touching the thing and talking to somebody. I don't know who it was.

235
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And you say you talked to them for about two hours?

236
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Well, it was probably an hour and a half. I was up there about two hours altogether.

237
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Did they mention anything about man's getting into space sort of coming into their territory?

238
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Well, they talk about stuff. Some of the stuff we can't say anything about. Some of them we can't.

239
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They were talking about that people were silly to go into space that they would never survive there.

240
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They said they can't survive here. They said they can only make a trip over two years or two that were here.

241
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But they can't stand this atmosphere that Earth men would have even a harder time than they do.

242
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They were telling me they were much farther advanced than this kind of stuff than we are.

243
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But they were more interested in agriculture, aspects of agriculture and anything.

244
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They asked me what I was doing about the manure and what I got it and what it did and all that stuff.

245
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They didn't know nothing about agriculture. They don't have no organic material or anything like that up there.

246
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They said they survive and what they get out of the atmosphere they have.

247
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And did you stress any point? They made a lot of statements like that, but they never stressed the point.

248
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They didn't say how they lived or anything like that.

249
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Did you say that they were other things they told you that you cannot reveal?

250
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Yeah, I mean...

251
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Why not? Why can't you reveal these other things?

252
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Well, I guess I better not say.

253
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Why?

254
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:03,080
Well, this is being investigated into yet.

255
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Who's investigating it?

256
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Well, it's supposed to be the Air Force supposed to be coming around. I guess what's yours says.

257
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You can't tell us what they told you?

258
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No, I shouldn't, yeah. For my own personal reason.

259
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Can you give us an indication of what it was?

260
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No.

261
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What did it concern?

262
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Well, it concerned them being here or anything.

263
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Why they were here?

264
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Did these creatures have features like we do on Earth? They have eyes.

265
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No.

266
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They were about four foot tall and they had arms and legs and heads.

267
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Where they had features, I would presume so.

268
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They just had a complete uniform covered everything.

269
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I mean, as far as seeing features you couldn't see anything.

270
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The voice comes from the front one someplace.

271
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I don't know, could it come from the head or could it come from the stomach or where?

272
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I just could hear the voice come from it someplace.

273
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He was about four or five feet away from me.

274
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What kind of were the uniforms?

275
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Same color as a ship.

276
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Sort of like a space suit.

277
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It was the same color. I didn't touch the uniforms, but they looked to me like the same kind of stuff.

278
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They seemed to go back underneath the ship to back when we went first and this front one turned around.

279
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They both went back underneath the ship and where they went to, I don't know,

280
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it was only about 60 seconds and the thing took off.

281
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Now it's standing about six inches from where it took off.

282
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And there you have reporting from his barn in Newark, New York, Gary Wilcox,

283
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a 28-year-old dairy farmer who says he saw, well, you heard Mr. Wilcox.

284
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And we'll continue our conversation.

285
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Our guests here on the studio, Streeter Stewart and Walter Webb, both members of NiCAP,

286
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will begin taking phone calls in just a moment.

287
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As always, our WBZ contact number is Algonquin 45678.

288
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And a quick reminder to Marnite on Contact, our topic is going to be the John Burt Society.

289
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That first phone call in just a moment.

290
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Gentlemen, let's take that first phone call.

291
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Our topic tonight, UFO Unidentified Flying Objects.

292
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My guests, Streeter Stewart and Walter Webb.

293
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,080
This is Bob Kennedy. You're on contact. You're on the air.

294
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,080
Yes, Mr. Kennedy.

295
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,080
This is Robert Forrest. And I have three brief points.

296
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,080
Okay, make them kind of brief. We're pushing for time here, Howard.

297
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:15,080
All right. I was wondering if your guests, either of them, were familiar with the two strange objects

298
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which have been seen in the western skies for the past week, or two weeks, rather.

299
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The brief description of their nature would be they were basically pure light with green towards the end,

300
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as if possibly they're at an angle, and a red flash at intervals going over their surface.

301
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They appear to be stars at first glance, but they're constantly in the sky.

302
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,080
Would this be the ones that are similar to the ones over Lawrence, Streeter?

303
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,080
Were we talking about earlier?

304
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,080
No, I think not. The ones over Lawrence appear to be a red ball.

305
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,080
Excuse me, in what direction were those objects seen?

306
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Just a few degrees to the left of Venus the first time,

307
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,080
and the other times of... No, basically they were constantly to the left of Venus.

308
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And then the last time I saw them, which was a few nights back,

309
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they had changed their position entirely and were about 50 degrees to the right of Venus.

310
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Were they star-like pinpoint lights?

311
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They seemed to be, but I checked and there was no temperature inversion, which could have caused it.

312
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There was a brief temperature inversion on a few nights, but it was nothing recognizable.

313
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,080
Well, the planet Venus would be the only planet object in that part of the sky.

314
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,080
Jupiter has long since disappeared. For a while, Jupiter and Venus were close together.

315
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Could be, though, that I believe there are some other stars over in that area.

316
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:40,080
Now, you know, when they're low to the horizon, they scintillate or refract.

317
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:47,080
Well, the only thing that would have killed that area is the fact that these moved in a contrary direction to the stars.

318
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Well, I'm baffled then. Why don't you give them a call after the program?

319
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,080
Let them know more detail and I'm sure they both be very interested.

320
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,080
All right, and my other two points with you. Once again, very brief.

321
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,080
We are setting up a sky watch here in Cambridge, and I thought that any of your listeners,

322
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,080
which might be interested in joining, could write me at 92 Pleasant Street, Cambridge.

323
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:13,080
And the third thing, which is once again very brief, there's a fellow out in Worcester who puts out a very excellent amateur publication,

324
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,080
which is nonprofit, called Controversial Phenomenal Bulletin, which is a software magazine.

325
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,080
And his address would be 42 Great Brook Valley Avenue, Worcester, Massachusetts.

326
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,080
Okay, what? All right, we'll send you the bill to 92 Pleasant Street.

327
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:32,080
Okay, thank you so much for calling. This is Bob Kennedy. You're in contact. You're on the air now. Hello?

328
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,080
Yes, hello.

329
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,080
Yes, sir.

330
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,080
Yes, to any one of your guests, I'd like to have this question answered.

331
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:50,080
I was wondering, I mentioned that some scientists believe that there is life on other planets beyond ours, or other bodies, or what have you.

332
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So I was wondering, what recent evidences do they have, if any, to base this upon, and then again, why is it that some scientists, you know,

333
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,080
tend to be skeptical about it, and even some tend to disagree.

334
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,080
All right, sir, fine. Thank you.

335
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:19,080
I'd like to answer that briefly. In the first place, they have discovered some tectites, which are kind of a meteorite material that appear to have some fossils of elementary life in them.

336
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This would indicate that there is some kind of life in outer space, because these are coming from some place other than the Earth.

337
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The second reason is that in biology and the other sciences, science is pretty well concluded now that wherever there is an atmosphere, an environment,

338
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propitious to life, life will develop. And there are undoubtedly many, many planets near a heat and energy source such as our sun that would be propitious for such life.

339
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,080
Therefore, these scientists conclude that life must have developed in that area.

340
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,080
This is Bob Kennedy. You're in contact. You're on the air now.

341
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,080
Yes?

342
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:06,080
Yes. According to the black muslims, they claim that the other ship up in the sky is for the purpose of destroying this country.

343
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:16,080
And they claim that there are 1500 bombing planes on that ship for the purpose of destroying the metropolitan areas of this country.

344
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,080
Yes.

345
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:56,080
They got back in the ship. He said, where the door was closed, it was so smooth as if it was no hinges to prove the mathematical ability of these people.

346
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,080
Now, when you say they were black men, do you mean this literally or do you mean that they were negro gentlemen up there?

347
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Well, he said black. I think Major Keohel also said that when he was flying a plane, or if it wasn't him or another pilot coming from South America,

348
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he claimed that it flew alongside of his plane and they said that they were black people.

349
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,080
And when I say black, I mean BLACK. That's what they came.

350
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:25,080
This particular gentleman in Texas that I heard over the radio on 58, he said that where they got back in the ship,

351
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,080
he said the mathematical mind of these people must have been so high because with a door closed,

352
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,080
you couldn't even see a normal hinge like we see on our door.

353
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,080
And he said it took off as if there was anything else he had ever seen in his life.

354
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,080
It went straight up, made a 90 degree turn without stopping.

355
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:55,080
Well, the late Douglas MacArthur, the general of the armies, is quoted as saying, and I have a tape in which he is quoted as saying that he believed that the next major war would be an interplanetary war.

356
00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Amazing. With people from other planets, or did he mean that we would, Earth people would manage to get on the planets and then begin fighting that way?

357
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:10,080
No, that this would be a war similar to the war of worlds in which the people of this Earth would war against people from other planets.

358
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,080
Well, we'll be able to put that question directly to Major Keeho shortly after news.

359
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:20,080
We'll ask him about those black men on the flying saucers and one evening during a discussion with Malcolm X,

360
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:27,080
when he was a member of the black Muslims, we were talking about this and the telephone call came in and someone asked specifically about it.

361
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,080
And I was amazed when Malcolm X agreed, yes, that there was.

362
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,080
They felt the saucer up there with black men on it, waiting possibly to attack the Earth.

363
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,080
So it is part of the black Muslim tradition.

364
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,080
And it's something that we'll be talking about right after news as we continue our discussion tonight on UFO.

365
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:51,080
Unidentified flying objects. Our WBC number as always is Algonquin 45678.

366
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This is Bob Kennedy standing by to put you in contact with the exciting world of people, places and ideas on Bob Kennedy Contact.

367
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We'll continue our conversation and take another phone call in just a moment.

368
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:10,080
Tonight on Contact, our topic is UFO. Unidentified flying objects.

369
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,080
When I began the program, a street was coming over from the new studio.

370
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,080
You probably didn't hear this, but I was saying, streeter, that this is probably, I would imagine,

371
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:24,080
our most controversial topic that we deal with on Contact by virtue of the reaction that we get to the programs afterwards.

372
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The mail is always very, very heavy and the phones are about ready to burn to the ground every time we do it,

373
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as it has been tonight with the lights lighting up.

374
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Our guest here in the studio, of course, Streeter Stewart, Streeter from WBC News, also a member of NiCAP.

375
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,080
And Walter Webb with us, Walter's been with us before, Walt, too, a member of NiCAP.

376
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:51,080
And now on our long distance contact line from his home, we have Major Donald Keeho, who is the director of NiCAP.

377
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,080
Major Keeho, welcome to Contact.

378
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,080
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

379
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,080
Now, Major, I know that, uh, Spose Streeter, I'm going to have a question for you,

380
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:03,080
and then we'll let our listeners join us in, as I said just a second ago, our lines have been quite busy tonight.

381
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,080
But Walt mentioned something in the beginning of the program that I think I'd ask your reaction to.

382
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:15,080
He said that we're in the midst of sort of a rash of UFO sightings across the country that began in April,

383
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,080
sort of in the Midwest and is moving now seemingly along the lines towards New England here.

384
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,080
Do you think that we are in the middle of a particularly active UFO sighting period?

385
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,080
Yes, actually, there's been a very noticeable increase.

386
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Not only that, there are many people who ordinarily keep silent who are encouraged now to speak up because of all these press reports.

387
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,080
What kind of people are these being, Major?

388
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:44,080
Well, they're a respectable businessman and then in the military services, the congressman, so on.

389
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,080
We've had a number of reports of people who said ordinarily I would keep this confidential, but it seems to be breaking out now.

390
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,080
Any particular congressman you'd like to name who have become a...

391
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Well, that's one thing. They have given us those reports.

392
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:02,080
I tell you, I think something on will, when our report on our seven-year investigation reaches Congress and then it's released to the press,

393
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,080
I think you'll be surprised at the number on the Hill who will come out and say,

394
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,080
we believe that these things are real and we have known it for quite some time.

395
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,080
When are you going to get this report to Congress?

396
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,080
It's in the last stage of the printing and we're trying to rush it through so that it will be...

397
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,080
it should be to Congress in the first part of June.

398
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:25,080
And what do you hope the result of this will be, aside from some statements from people on the Hill, the result of this report?

399
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:31,080
Well, first of all, we think there will be a congressional investigation because the number of senators and congressmen

400
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,080
who've already said that they will back such a move.

401
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:42,080
Second, when the press and all the broadcast newsmen around the country realized that this massive evidence is on record

402
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:49,080
and realized they've been misled, perhaps not deliberately, but they have been led to believe there was nothing to it.

403
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:55,080
And here are all these hundreds of reports from veteran observers, pilots and the missile trackers and astronomers and so forth.

404
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:02,080
It's going to be revolutionary and I think this is the gear for the UFO problem. It's going to break out.

405
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,080
Straighten? Do you have a question?

406
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,080
Walter wanted to ask some more, I think, about this congressional investigation.

407
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,080
Well, Grand Major, I'd like to cut in here a moment.

408
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,080
Tell me, has the Air Force explained the Securro and the Mexico case at all?

409
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,080
I have not seen anything on this in the papers.

410
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:24,080
Not to date, as far as I know. They admitted it to their chief investigator, Dr. Heiming, admitted they were puzzled.

411
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,080
And apparently he stands up in the community as a very respectable person.

412
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,080
They also did find marks on the ground.

413
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,080
Apparently something did land there and it could not have been any one of our secret devices.

414
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,080
They don't test them in that way. They test them on the proving ground.

415
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,080
Now, remember right in the beginning there when the UFO investigators, the Air Force people were coming out,

416
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,080
they said that it was not a secret aircraft that was being tested around that area.

417
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,080
That's right.

418
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,080
And also they witnessed that patrolmen was considered to be very, very reliable.

419
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,080
That's right.

420
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,080
Major Keeho, I was sitting here thinking about the results of this investigation,

421
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,080
if Congress does investigate UFO and if there is more public interest,

422
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,080
do you think, again with a supposition on my part anyway, perhaps not on yours,

423
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,080
if there were these people beings from outer space that were surveying our planet,

424
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,080
and if as a result of the congressional investigation,

425
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:22,080
UFO, the public's interest in UFO increased, if there was more of an open-minded attitude toward UFO in this country,

426
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,080
do you think then it might perhaps prompt these beings to be a little more,

427
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,080
a little more, well, less,

428
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:37,080
cattle-stained in their appearances here on Earth? Do you think they might make their appearances known more readily?

429
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:43,080
Well, I think it might for this reason, if there were a change in policy so that every time one of these appears,

430
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:50,080
the gender receptors don't take off and try to shoot one down or bring it down quickly for examination,

431
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,080
that alone should encourage them to try attentive landing here and there,

432
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,080
instead of with these very brief ones where they land and are ready to go in a hurry if anybody comes near.

433
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:05,080
Major Keeho, I wanted to ask, is there still a policy of secrecy on the part of the Air Force

434
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,080
as far as giving out information to the public is concerned?

435
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,080
My experience has been that they want to get information, but they don't want to give information.

436
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,080
What is the situation now?

437
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:22,080
That is correct. Under Air Force Regulation 200, all Air Force personnel are prohibited from giving out

438
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,080
any information on their sightings unless it is approved at Air Force headquarters.

439
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:33,080
And all they put out is headquarters as a rule, very vague summaries, percentages and so forth.

440
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,080
When a specific case breaks, like this one in New Mexico, they're almost forced to say something.

441
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:45,080
But as a rule, you never hear anything of all of the jet chases of UFOs and the formations that are sighted

442
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,080
from military air bases and so on.

443
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,080
Major Keeho, Streeter and Walt, I'd like to continue this conversation, but so would our listeners.

444
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,080
So let's get to some phone calls. Our number as always is Algonquin 45678.

445
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,080
And we'll take that next phone call right after this message.

446
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:05,080
Once again, my guests in the studio, Streeter Stewart, Walter Wem from MiCap on our long distance contact line,

447
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,080
the head of MiCap, the director, Major Donald Keeho from his home in Virginia.

448
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:14,080
Gentlemen, let's take that next phone call. This is Bob Kennedy. You're in contact now. You're on the air.

449
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,080
Oh, Bob Kennedy? Yes, sir.

450
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,080
Bob, I don't want to take too much of your airtime this evening, but I've been interested in UFOs for a long time

451
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:26,080
and these all seem to come out after one spectacular sighting such as the one down in New Mexico.

452
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:32,080
But I'd like to ask Major Keeho a question or two here and then relate an experience that I had briefly.

453
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,080
Well, how about relating the experience first? Technically, it will be easier for us, and then ask the two questions together.

454
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:45,080
The experience was one that I had that is tied up with this question of sightings in rather barren, isolated areas.

455
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:52,080
That I had this summer in the west central Nebraska in the Sandhills region, which are quite common out there.

456
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,080
The ranchers have reported them a number of times to me. I was doing some survey work out there.

457
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:03,080
And to them, it's very common stuff. Their country folk live off the land and they don't think much about it.

458
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,080
What are the sightings like?

459
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:14,080
The sighting that I was particularly involved with was a sighting of 103 of these very bright egg-shaped things that were out in this,

460
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:23,080
around this lake this past July 3rd. They've had numbers of them on this particular lake in the Sandhills region, cattle country before.

461
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:31,080
But I happened to stop by this ranch on my survey and had this man report to me that both he and his mother, an elderly lady,

462
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:38,080
this past July 3rd, had an encounter with 103 of these things that they counted around their lake in front of their ranch.

463
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:45,080
They fired guns at them. They got about 200 yards away and these things took off.

464
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,080
He's had experiences with two or three of them before, never with any people. They've landed.

465
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,080
They seem to be in congregations out there, 40 miles from the nearest town.

466
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,080
And you saw them, you say?

467
00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:05,080
I did not see them, no. This was given to me by these people in the course of the survey, but there was continual backing up of many different reports of people

468
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,080
who said this was just common stuff in this region where there are no concentrations of people.

469
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,080
Well, let's see if our guests are familiar with that. What are the two questions you have?

470
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:21,080
Well, the two questions was one about this. Is there a correlation in the survey reports with sightings in rather desolate areas?

471
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:34,080
And the second one is a fact that has anyone overheard any conversations among people who seem to be agents in this flying saucer program,

472
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:40,080
such as one that another friend of mine had in Chicago two summers ago working in an office building,

473
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:47,080
overhearing in the next office what to all intents and purposes was a report from a man here on Earth

474
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:54,080
dressed like an Earth person looking like a human being to another man in this office.

475
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,080
They did not know he was in the next office cleaning.

476
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,080
You mean supposedly are agents from outer space that are working in this office?

477
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080
I don't like to say this because it sounds so funny.

478
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,080
Well, we've had one fellow on the program that swears there's one in the Pentagon, George King's.

479
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:14,080
I'm not familiar with that and I am still somewhat skeptical, but I'm very interested in this.

480
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:19,080
He said that he being a skeptic like myself said it was the most fantastic thing he'd ever heard.

481
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:24,080
A report from a man saying to this other higher up be it.

482
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:32,080
I'm reporting back from the Middle Western area here that he was assigned a particular geographical area to more or less live and move in

483
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,080
and report on the activities of Earth.

484
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,080
Okay, now your first question was a correlation with sightings in desolate areas.

485
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,080
In other words, are there...

486
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,080
In desolate remote areas, New Mexico, Middle West, Plains, etc. Is there a correlation?

487
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:51,080
The second one, have there been similar occasions of people meeting or overhearing?

488
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,080
Okay, fine. Thank you so much. Major Keeho, do you hear those?

489
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,080
The last question, the last part of that I didn't hear clearly.

490
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:04,080
Yeah, well the last question was he overheard two gentlemen talking and they seem to be agents from space

491
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,080
and he wondered if you had heard anything about this.

492
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,080
Well, yeah, well there's less sentences but I wasn't sure about it.

493
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:16,080
Well the first question, the correlation about landings and operations in desolate areas,

494
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:25,080
there have been I think more reports of touch landings naturally out in the more barren areas and they would be close to a city

495
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,080
and that reason rather obvious is that they get chased quite frequently.

496
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:38,080
And then, this gentleman reported people firing at the UFOs and I would suggest that anyone who sees one of these

497
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:44,080
don't not fire at all but wait and see what happens. That's one reason why they don't apparently want to land

498
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,080
and stay on the ground. The second one, I think there's no proof of that at all.

499
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:56,080
We've heard that story many, many times and it may be true but at the same time I would have to have a lot more evidence

500
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,080
before I would accept that we have such agents moving around on Earth.

501
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,080
Alright gentlemen, let's take another call. Bob Kennedy, you're on contact, you're on the air.

502
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,080
Hello, Bob?

503
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,080
Yes.

504
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,080
Excuse me, I'm in a West Roxbury calling.

505
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,080
Yes.

506
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:17,080
I was looking at Venus about a couple nights ago and I saw a very little green dot moving very fast

507
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:22,080
and I called the authorities to find out they had seen them and I was wondering what they were.

508
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,080
They said there was nothing, it was probably just my eyesight.

509
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,080
I was wondering if they were wearing glasses on green dots on pages. Did you check it? You wear glasses?

510
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,080
Yes.

511
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,080
You weren't doing some painting, any green painting that day where you were painting the screens?

512
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,080
Okay, we'll see what web might have something on that. Thank you for calling.

513
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:42,080
Okay, I guess I missed her. I was hoping to get her on the line but she said three little green dots.

514
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,080
Right.

515
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:48,080
Again, I would have asked her what direction in the sky. I guess she said near Venus, didn't she?

516
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:55,080
So, how long did she see them? For example, now, it could have been plain lights, green.

517
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,080
Has there been any reports of anything like that?

518
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,080
Probably not satellites.

519
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,080
No, not lately.

520
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Alright.

521
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,080
Fine, we'll take another phone call in just a moment but first we'll check the baseball scoreboard.

522
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,080
This is Bruce Hemmings. I'm framing him.

523
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,080
Okay, Bruce, how are you?

524
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,080
That's good.

525
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,080
Fine.

526
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:17,080
I have something I think your guest should know that I was fighting.

527
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:27,080
I saw around a year or two ago that it was around where I live and my father and I were driving in a car

528
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:36,080
and we happened to look out and we saw this big, large ball and it was completely white

529
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:44,080
and it kept blinking on and off and the intervals between were four seconds.

530
00:41:44,080 --> 00:42:02,080
And then a month later we saw the same thing and it was around the same area and the curve had the same actions as the sighting we saw a month before.

531
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,080
Whereabouts did you see it?

532
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:09,080
Well, around the Pleasant Street and down near First Baptist Church.

533
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,080
The Sound and Framingham?

534
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,080
Yes.

535
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:24,080
And I think the size of it was about the size of a car, I think it was big, but it didn't look like a plane or anything

536
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:29,080
but just thinking that your guest should know about it.

537
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,080
Alright, fine.

538
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,080
I have a little question to ask.

539
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,080
Alright.

540
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,080
And here you get.

541
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:43,080
Around 10 or 11 years ago there was a civil fighting over Washington, D.C.

542
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:47,080
and I was wondering if that was true or false.

543
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,080
Alright, I think we'll ask Major Kehoe on that one since that's right down in his home territory.

544
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,080
Major Kehoe, do you hear that question?

545
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,080
That wasn't coming through very clearly but I'm sorry.

546
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,080
Well, that's okay.

547
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,080
The question was the general was concerned about some sightings over Washington a couple of years ago

548
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,080
and he wonders if there is any truth to that.

549
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,080
Were there some sightings?

550
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,080
Major, these are the ones in 1952.

551
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,080
Washington radar.

552
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,080
Well, the 52 sightings of course are well documented.

553
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:15,080
There were formations of UFOs, groups operating over Washington that were tracked for radar

554
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,080
and seen visually from the towers, tower operators, plane pilots and so on.

555
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:26,080
Recently there have been a few sightings over Washington, some of which have been revealed

556
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,080
and most of them are kept under wraps.

557
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,080
Nice.

558
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,080
Let's take another phone call then.

559
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,080
This is Bob Kennedy.

560
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,080
You're in contact.

561
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:34,080
You're on the air now.

562
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,080
Hello?

563
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,080
Hello?

564
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,080
Yes, ma'am.

565
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,080
This is Lyle Boyd.

566
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,080
I'm the co-author for Dr. Menzel of the World of Flying Saucers.

567
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,080
Glad to have you join us.

568
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:49,080
Dr. Menzel unfortunately is in South America so he can't call up to comment.

569
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,080
I thought I would like to.

570
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,080
Please?

571
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:58,080
In the first place, Mr. Webb and Mr. Stewart made some criticism of our book saying that

572
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,080
we continually use the word probably in giving our solution.

573
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:08,080
And I would like to comment that this is the only thing a scientist can say when an event

574
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,080
happened many years before and he doesn't have access to all the material.

575
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:18,080
He can have an excellent theory but he can't prove it and he'd be very foolish to say

576
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,080
that.

577
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:28,080
And the cool thing that seems to be about the UFO belief is that they also are depending

578
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,080
on probability but they have no evidence at all and they treat probability as though

579
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,080
it were fact.

580
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,080
The fact is we have no evidence at all that we've had visitors from outer space.

581
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,080
Nor ships ever landed, been photographed, we've never found any wreckage, we've never

582
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,080
found any bones of these little men.

583
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:53,080
They have no evidence and it seems to me so foolish for a person to believe these things

584
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,080
until he can have some proof.

585
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:01,080
And Dr. Menzel and I in our book were trying to treat the thing reasonably and to say that

586
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,080
these things happen.

587
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:07,080
You do have these peculiar circumstances but they're a question of interpretation but you

588
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:12,080
can't find a positive verdict either way until you have all the facts.

589
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,080
The students in Dr. Menzel's class on the times that I attended his class when he was

590
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:24,080
speaking on unidentified flying objects criticized Dr. Menzel for not having a scientific attitude.

591
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,080
Now I know that he is one of the world's great scientists but when it comes to the unidentified

592
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:34,080
flying objects he does say that he believes that he can explain all of these on a basis

593
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,080
of natural phenomena.

594
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:43,080
And the students who had sightings of their own to have these dismissed by Dr. Menzel

595
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:48,080
as saying well it was probably workman's lunch bag that was flying through the air or it was

596
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:54,080
probably a spider web when they knew they had not seen a workman's lunch bag or a spider web

597
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,080
made them make these statements that his approach was not a scientific one.

598
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,080
Well I'm afraid he may have been being facetious.

599
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:06,080
If you had caught him in a serious mood he would consider the facts very seriously and

600
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,080
try to find a reasonable explanation but even then he would have said probably.

601
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:12,080
Yes well I did.

602
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,080
I recorded Dr. Menzel on both of these.

603
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,080
I have two hours of recording and I even gave him a duplicate copy of the recordings that

604
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,080
I made.

605
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:26,080
Now I know that he is very sincere and he believes that all of these can be explained on a basis

606
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:35,080
of natural phenomena and he gives some very plausible explanations but I do feel that

607
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,080
there is enough evidence.

608
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:43,080
Thousands of these sightings that have been made by people who I think some are just as

609
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:49,080
capable of making observations as Dr. Menzel and also of drawing conclusions and therefore

610
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:54,080
I would have to conclude that there is a probability that some of these cannot be explained on a

611
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:55,080
basis of natural phenomena.

612
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,080
I think we simply don't know all the answers.

613
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:04,080
The point that strikes me is that you say there is no evidence at all and my guests this evening

614
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:10,080
say that there is some evidence in fact a good deal of evidence so here are two very very

615
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,080
separate opinions.

616
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,080
There is no shading on either side it seems to me and one does wonder well here we go.

617
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,080
One side says no evidence and the other side says no.

618
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,080
It's a question of what you define as evidence.

619
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,080
That's basic.

620
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,080
Well thanks very much.

621
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,080
Well what is your definition of evidence?

622
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,080
I think that would be most important so.

623
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,080
Well primarily something you could weigh, measure or photograph.

624
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:37,080
Well there have been people who have submitted photographs which were some people considered

625
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:38,080
to be authentic.

626
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,080
I know that others say that they have been falsified and they have ridiculed them.

627
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:49,080
There have also been some metals that have been tested and assayed and this I consider

628
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:55,080
to be evidence and I believe that if you will consider this to be evidence that there is

629
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:01,080
some evidence now to be able to prove that this was from a spaceship that was from outer

630
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:05,080
space is that would take some doing.

631
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,080
I would admit that.

632
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,080
Mrs. Boyd this is Walter Webb here.

633
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,080
I wanted to just make a comment on the book.

634
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:17,080
I think you and Dr. Menzel have done a good job in explaining away the lights.

635
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:23,080
I think many of those do turn out to be stars and planets but the theories begin to be a

636
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:29,080
little stretched out, a little far fetched it seems to me when you get objects that are

637
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,080
large and seen at close range.

638
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,080
Now this is where I think you and Dr. Menzel have maybe gone a little astray.

639
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,080
What in particular?

640
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:42,080
Well I can't think of any offhand but there were some, well I'll see, there was the French

641
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,080
Angel hair cases.

642
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,080
Remember that?

643
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:46,080
Yes.

644
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:53,080
And I think I commented on this in a letter to Dr. Menzel but he left out, left out a

645
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,080
complete description of the objects that were seen.

646
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:02,080
I don't know why he did this unless it was to sort of make it a little easier to fit his

647
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,080
theory.

648
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,080
Oh no, no, no.

649
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,080
It must have been some kind of oversight maybe we didn't have the evidence.

650
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,080
I don't know.

651
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,080
I don't recall the details.

652
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,080
Come around to the observatory sometime.

653
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,080
Let's talk it over.

654
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,080
Good, I'm glad to see we, at least our guests are talking it over.

655
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,080
Thank you so much for calling us tonight Mrs. Boyd.

656
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,080
Nice having you on our program.

657
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,080
Our number is Algonquin 45678 and the controversy wages on.

658
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,080
Gentlemen, let's take another phone call.

659
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,080
This is Bob Kennedy.

660
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,080
You're in contact.

661
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,080
You're on the air.

662
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,080
Hello Mr. Kennedy.

663
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:32,080
Yes ma'am.

664
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,080
I'm during your program immensely.

665
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,080
Why, thank you so much.

666
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,080
I just want to say that last summer my husband and I, we lived in East Boston.

667
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,080
We saw five of something.

668
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,080
We weren't sure what it was.

669
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:47,080
And they flew over the airport real fast.

670
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,080
And I was wondering, doesn't Radar spot these things?

671
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,080
Good question.

672
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,080
Thank you for calling.

673
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,080
Let's check with Major Keyhode down there in Virginia.

674
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,080
Major, what about Radar spotting UFO?

675
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:05,080
There are a couple of other cases Bob, where Radar has not only tracked UFOs,

676
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,080
but has shown them maneuvering.

677
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:15,080
And these UFOs have been simultaneously confirmed visually by observers on the ground,

678
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,080
at airports, in towers, and in airplanes in the area.

679
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:26,080
Now the odd part about this is that many times people think Radar can be at fault.

680
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,080
But when you have an absolute instantaneous confirmation,

681
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,080
and when more than one Radar sets triangulates,

682
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,080
helps to triangulate a position,

683
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,080
and shows these things exactly where they're seen visually,

684
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,080
there isn't any question about it.

685
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:45,080
There's something solid we've seen because the Mirage answer will not explain a way such triangulation.

686
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,080
Now by triangulation, you mean two Radars at separate spots,

687
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,080
record something, and they cross?

688
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,080
There's one interesting thing about this.

689
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:59,080
Air Force Regulation 200-2 has a provision in there for classifying,

690
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:05,080
as either confidential or secret, Radar Scope photos which show UFOs.

691
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,080
Now those things, as soon as they take the photographs of the Radar Scope,

692
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,080
which shows these things maneuvering, or following various patterns,

693
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,080
they are classified, you can't get them.

694
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,080
And there have been many of these, taken, the Air Force has many of them in their files,

695
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:25,080
and that's one of the bits of evidence to which Mrs. Boyd apparently was not,

696
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,080
well she wasn't allowed to see, in documents either.

697
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,080
Many of those things are underwrapped, and people can then ask about them,

698
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,080
and they can politely say, I'm sorry, that's not available.

699
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,080
Our contact is tonight here in the studio,

700
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,080
Street or Stewart-Wald Webb on our long distance line from Virginia,

701
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,080
Major Donald Keyhole, and we'll be back with more phone calls in just a moment.

702
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,080
And vicinity clear and cool tonight with low readings in the mid-40s inland,

703
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,080
and in the upper 30s along the coast.

704
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:55,080
Tomorrow's going to be partly cloudy, with a chance of scattered showers by evening,

705
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:01,080
highest temperatures again in the 70s, winds picking up to southwest 15 to 20 miles an hour,

706
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,080
and the present WBC temperature is 73 degrees.

707
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,080
Say, how long has it been since you rode a cable car in San Francisco?

708
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:14,080
Well you know, that's just one of the memorable things that you can do on a western adventure vacation with TWA.

709
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:19,080
You can visit exciting Disneyland, sit around a campfire at night out in the desert,

710
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,080
and share the fun in Las Vegas.

711
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:26,080
When you fly TWA, you're on vacation the same day your vacation begins,

712
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:30,080
because TWA jets take you to California in just a few short hours.

713
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:36,080
And you can see a brand new movie on the way by in-flight motion pictures in either first class or coach.

714
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,080
The cost of your vacation in the west is less than you may think,

715
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,080
especially when you travel on TWA's family travel plan.

716
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:48,080
On certain days of the week you can save 25% of each fare for your wife and children,

717
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,080
and low cost jet coach as well as in first class.

718
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,080
Make this your year for a wonderful vacation in California and the west.

719
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:03,080
For free TWA vacation literature, call TWA, see your travel agent, or write to TWA Adventures,

720
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,080
Box 103, Boston 34.

721
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:10,080
A quick reminder tomorrow night on contact we'll be talking about the John Burt's Society.

722
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:14,080
We'll be talking about it with a gentleman who has just published a book on this organization called,

723
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,080
The John Burt Society Anatomy of Protest.

724
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:23,080
His name is Jay Allen-Broyles, our contact guest tomorrow night at 6.30.

725
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,080
This is Bob Kennedy, you're in contact now, you're on the air.

726
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,080
Hello?

727
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,080
Hi Bob.

728
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:29,080
Yes sir.

729
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,080
I've got three very quick questions for Major Keogh.

730
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,080
Okay, and then at this point I'm going to limit the questions from here on out to only two,

731
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080
because we have so many phone calls, we'll never get to them.

732
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,080
So if you can give us the three quick questions, sir, and we'll have the major answer.

733
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:50,080
Mr. Cedric Ailingham and Mr. George Adamsky, two fairly well known amateur astronomers.

734
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,080
Are either of these fellows, well I guess amateur astronomers make some astronomers in a way.

735
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,080
I suppose anyone can be an amateur astronomer.

736
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,080
As long as I have a telescope in the backyard.

737
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:58,080
Oh you need us a telescope.

738
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:05,080
Okay, well we just wanted to clear up, because Mr. Adamsky is a fellow that takes weekend flights and flying saucers, etc. right?

739
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,080
Right, both these people have supposedly spoken and,

740
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,080
filmed people from Mars and Venus.

741
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:21,080
And my first question is whether or not any of these photographs have ever been found to be authentic.

742
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:28,080
Question number two in Major Keogh's last book, which was the Flying Saucer Conspiracy,

743
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:38,080
he mentioned that in the 1950s a bridge on the moon had been discovered, which they had called the Moon Bridge.

744
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:45,080
My second question was if there has been any further information or investigation on this bridge.

745
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:46,080
Alright sir.

746
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:57,080
And the third quick question, is there any organization that the average citizen like myself could join to receive more information on the UFOs?

747
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Join NICAP.

748
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,080
NICAP.

749
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,080
How simple is that?

750
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,080
Sure you can join the organization that all of our guests this evening are members of.

751
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:09,080
NICAP National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomenon, and we'll give you the address.

752
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,080
Once we talk with Major Keogh, again Major?

753
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,080
Yes.

754
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,080
Alright.

755
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,080
The first two gentlemen named are pretty well known to us.

756
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,080
I'm sorry, but we simply cannot accept their reports.

757
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:29,080
Mr. Adamsky and a number of cases have made reports which we have found to be contrary to facts.

758
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:40,080
As far as the photographs are concerned, the Olingham photo is still to be seen and it merely shows that the back of a man from some other world walking away from the camera,

759
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,080
well it could be the back of anyone for that concern.

760
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:57,080
Now the Adamsky photos, which are supposed to be a very active spaceship, have been examined by very careful photographers and experts in this field and none of them have accepted them.

761
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:13,080
Now one of these is Mr. Frank Edwards, the noted TV commentator, and he on the air told Mr. Adamsky that the pictures were fake and that he would be glad to have him sue him at any time for saying so.

762
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,080
And nobody has come forth with any suit.

763
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:24,080
And no matter, aside from that, that angle, I don't think that you can accept evidence of this kind to simply not back up.

764
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,080
The films don't stand up.

765
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:34,080
Now the second question about the moon bridge, that was given to us by a British astronomer, an expert on the moon,

766
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:44,080
deciding of the screen structure or something up there which appeared like a bridge across this area was confirmed in this country by a number of astronomers.

767
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:52,080
Most of them are known as amateurs, which means they may have been astronomers for 30 years, but they don't get paid for it.

768
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:59,080
Most of the government agencies have denied that there is such a structure there, but something rather had appeared in that area.

769
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:09,080
Now the third question, anyone who is interested in obtaining information, particularly in regard to this seven year report which we are about to put out,

770
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:23,080
can get this by writing to NICAP, NICAP, National Investigations Committee on Aerophenomena, short NICAP 1536 Connecticut Avenue, Washington DC.

771
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:30,080
This is an organization of citizens all over the country and in about 25 foreign countries,

772
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:38,080
Cyrus, military men, pilots, astronomers, observers, people of all types, professions and traits and so on.

773
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:45,080
And it's headed by a board of governors, some of the rear admirals, Carlton and so forth on down, scientists, technicians.

774
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:50,080
When I said on down, I wasn't downgrading people who are up to the rank of rear admirals.

775
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:57,080
And they examine these cases and these things are analyzed, the cases reports from veteran observers,

776
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:02,080
and you finally reach a conclusion. The conclusion by the majority of the board has been so far.

777
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:09,080
These are the two real and other intelligent control. And some very amazing information will come out in this report within the next few weeks.

778
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:19,080
As again, anyone who is interested or anyone who has a citing report that he has been keeping under wraps, we would like very much to have at this same address.

779
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:23,080
All right. Our WBZ contact number is Hong Kong when 45678.

780
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:29,080
Just a quick reminder that this portion of contact is being brought to you in cooperation with Boston University.

781
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,080
Let's take another phone call. Bob Kennedy, you're in contact. You're on the air.

782
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:48,080
This is Nelson Hayes. Unlike Mrs. Boyd, I am somewhat less charitable in my view of the possibility that all of these sightings can be explained as natural phenomena.

783
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:58,080
Specifically, I'm concerned about, and this is what I'd like your guest to comment on, the number of people, and I wouldn't recommend them,

784
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:09,080
who have in one way or another profited through publicity or through money by publicizing the existing terrifying sources.

785
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:17,080
There is, for example, one man who publishes a magazine exclusively devoted to this and he makes a living from it.

786
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:35,080
I'm reminded of other frauds and fallacies such as the TARDIS giant, or Ron Hubbard's Dianetics, various mispolice, misconceptions that have been foisted over public for, as I say, publicity and profit.

787
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:43,080
The fact that a man publishes a magazine for profit concerning a certain field certainly should not condemn him for doing that.

788
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:50,080
We have hundreds of scientific publications that are published for profit and they do deal with scientific subjects.

789
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:57,080
Can you condemn those people because they are making money from it simply because they are dealing with a scientific subject?

790
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:03,080
Do you condemn this one man for the same reason that he's published it for profit? Should he do it for non-profit?

791
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:13,080
No, of course not. I'm being allowed now to answer this question. In this case, however, the individual involved had been a publisher of a science fiction magazine.

792
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:25,080
He wrote to death a story based on materials supposedly supplied to him by someone concerning the existence of a law civilization.

793
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:36,080
Mrs. Lyle Boyd herself is a science fiction writer and she has published this book. No doubt it was published for profit, not just to make a declaration of what they believe.

794
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:45,080
And I'm sure I at least hope that they are making a profit. It's an interesting book and I think it should be read. Are you going to condemn her because she wants to make a profit from her activity?

795
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:51,080
No, let's get this clear. I am talking about people who essentially either make a living from this.

796
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:56,080
Right. I'm sure that Mrs. Boyd has made a living from her science fiction writing.

797
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,080
Well, I'm sure as a matter of fact she hasn't. But that is not the end of it.

798
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:05,080
Well, I think she's living and I have met her and she seemed to be living fairly well from all I could see.

799
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:13,080
And science fiction writing for Mrs. Boyd is an avocation. Certainly it's not her vocation. But this is not the point I'm trying to make.

800
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:27,080
What I'm trying to make is the desire obviously of many people to publicize supposed sightings for the purpose of getting their names in the paper or for getting on the radio or on television.

801
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:33,080
If they're in the business of publication or if they are in the business of publishing, then it seems to me that that is their business.

802
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:40,080
If they were to turn down the sightings, they would be very foolish. It seems to me plain idiots.

803
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:52,080
Well, what I'm trying to open here is the question as to whether any of these people who supposedly have seen flying saucers are deliberately fabricating.

804
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,080
I think this is an essential question.

805
01:01:55,080 --> 01:02:05,080
Well, there are hundreds of thousands of documented sightings that have been reported and tens of thousands, I would say, that have been investigated.

806
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:15,080
And there must be a lot of crackpots in the world if all of these people are making these just for fraud or for publicity's sake.

807
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,080
I can't believe that there are that many crazy people in the world who are out in the streets.

808
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:24,080
Now, if these were coming from institutions, I would understand it more easily.

809
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:29,080
But it seems to me that these people are simply revealing what they have seen.

810
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:41,080
And for every person who is making a profit from it, I would say that you could find a thousand sightings and publications of sightings where the person is making no profit, has nothing whatsoever to gain from it.

811
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:55,080
I think the gentleman's point was not that necessarily all of these people were in it for the sheer profit, but that there would possibly be a percentage of people who were continuing to keep UFO before the public because it did give them a rather lucrative livelihood.

812
01:02:55,080 --> 01:03:17,080
Well, the UFO's subject is before the public and they're not trying to keep it before the public, they're simply trying to reflect a situation that exists and it seems to me they're doing that in the same way that a scientific publication or a biological publication or a medical publication or a news publication keeps the news before the public or keeps the subject that they are interested in before the public.

813
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:23,080
Gentlemen, we'll continue our discussion in just a moment. Our numbers are Gokwin 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

814
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:37,080
A quick reminder this Thursday night on Contact, we're going to be talking about the activity in Cuba, the activity that is supposed to be coming up this week, the activity that has already taken place for the increased activity that will be taking place as of Wednesday.

815
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,080
We'll be talking about that with two gentlemen from Alpha 66.

816
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:51,080
That'll be coming up Thursday night on Contact. Our next phone call in just a moment, but if you're planning a trip to the fabulous New York World's Fair, well, have you tried making hotel reservations?

817
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:58,080
It's a fact that many who have tried are finding it difficult to be guaranteed reservations. Now, here's a suggestion with a guarantee.

818
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:06,080
World's Fair Tours Incorporated offers an all-expense package plan weekend tours that you just cannot match yourself.

819
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:21,080
Think of it. Round-trip rail transportation from Boston, two nights at the air-conditioned Hotel New Yorker, transportation to the fair, two admissions to the fair, an hour-and-a-half glass topped bus tour of the fair, a thrilling monorail ride, baggage gratuities and taxes.

820
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:35,080
Yes, a full delightful weekend at the fair, and this complete package costs just $45 per person. Not only is this $45 lower than you could arrange for yourself, but this is the way to be certain of hotel reservations.

821
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:47,080
You can reserve right now for the May 15th and May 29th weekend by calling Hubbard 20060. That's Hubbard 20060. Operators are waiting for your call.

822
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:59,080
For full information, without obligation, call Hubbard 20060 or write for a free brochure describing the special World's Fair package tour for just $45 to box 103 Boston 34 Massachusetts.

823
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:12,080
Remember, you can call for reservations on the May 29th weekend, and there'll be other weekends coming up throughout the summer. So you call for information, the number Hubbard 20060 or write box 103 Boston 34.

824
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,080
This is Bob Kennedy. You're on contact now. You're on the air.

825
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,080
Hello, Bob. I'd like to ask two questions.

826
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:18,080
Yes, sir?

827
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:25,080
The first one is, do the jets that try to intercept these unidentified flying objects, are they specially equipped with cameras or anything like that?

828
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:26,080
All right, sir. What's your other question?

829
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:35,080
Second of all, does the government itself, not the Air Force, employ people to cover the world and find out information about any sightings or anything?

830
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,080
All right, five. Thank you so much for calling. Major Keyhole.

831
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:48,080
Well, the first question about jets. Some of them have gun cameras. Not all jet interceptors have that equipment, but many of them do.

832
01:05:48,080 --> 01:06:01,080
And a number of them have been able to take pictures of objects they were pursuing. Those with any detail have not been released. We've seen several that show around objects at some distance ahead of the jets.

833
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:15,080
This is a second question. The Air Force is to sign the responsibility of investigating UFOs. However, according to Major C.R. Hart, who was the spokesman on UFOs some time ago, about a year ago,

834
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:29,080
the Air Force employs the services of scientists in many government agencies. It has access to all laboratories for example, evaluating material and analyzing it.

835
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:43,080
It uses the FBI to check up on the people, find out whether they're reputable witnesses and so on. So you could say that there are thousands of people in the United States government who do take part in this UFO investigation.

836
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,080
All right, this is Bob Kennedy. You're in contact. You're on the air.

837
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,080
Thank you. I'd like to ask Mr. Webb this question if I may.

838
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:50,080
Sure.

839
01:06:50,080 --> 01:07:00,080
Could you tell me if during our lifetime that we will ever witness a large-scale meeting of these, of our own human beings with these outer space creatures?

840
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,080
All right, Walter.

841
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:18,080
Well, I suppose it's possible if you go along with the theory that they're interplanetary or interstellar spacecraft. Perhaps from the looks of it now, they seem to be landing when they land, sort of in out-of-the-way places with the purpose of not having open contact with us.

842
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:26,080
Perhaps they're waiting until we can meet them on their own level. We certainly have a long way to go. We haven't even achieved a trip to the moon.

843
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:38,080
Now, perhaps they might extend the hand of greeting out to us after we have proven that we can land on another object in space. It might not even be the moon. It might have to be the planet Mars, let's say.

844
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:44,080
And then we can perhaps show that we can do this in peace. Perhaps then they might want to contact us.

845
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,080
Do you feel this will happen in your lifetime?

846
01:07:48,080 --> 01:08:05,080
Well, that's a good question. I really don't know. I think a lot of it has to do with how our government and the governments of the world treat them. As we've all pointed out here tonight, we seem to give every intention of hostile activity ourselves.

847
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:14,080
If these creatures do exist and if they do come from outer space, now this man from New York State said that they were taking samplings of the earth.

848
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:24,080
M.A. Michel in his book called Flying Saucers in the Straight Line Mystery made a study of the sightings that had been made in Europe, particularly in France.

849
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:35,080
And he discovered that when there was a sighting at one place in France, usually the same day or very shortly thereafter, oftentimes the same day, there would be a sighting in various parts of France.

850
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:46,080
And if you drew a line from the place where the sighting was reported in one area to the sighting in another, you would find that it made a straight line right across France and part of Europe.

851
01:08:46,080 --> 01:09:04,080
And then a very interesting part of his theory is that when there would be a group of sightings again, that the group of sightings, when they were lined up, the second group of sightings would intercept the first group of sightings,

852
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:12,080
so that there was an actual intersection of those two, which would seem to indicate that they were making a survey of the earth.

853
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:23,080
And it could be that they are trying to find out things about the earth and observing and do not want to make too much of a contact with us until they know whether or not we are going to be hostile to them,

854
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:33,080
because I believe that they have been fired on at times and they have been chased and if they exist and if they are intelligent, certainly they want to know more about us

855
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,080
before they contact us in such a way that would be a danger for them.

856
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:41,080
This is Bob Kennedy. You're on contact. You're on the air. Hello?

857
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:42,080
Hello?

858
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:43,080
Yes.

859
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,080
I have a bulletin in front of me from NYCAP. I'm a NYCAP member.

860
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:47,080
All right.

861
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:55,080
And it says that ABC TV is planning a national series of feature programs on UFOs and has requested NYCAP's help.

862
01:09:55,080 --> 01:10:00,080
Now, I was wondering, it just tells vaguely here what the date of this program will be.

863
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:07,080
I was wondering if Major Kehoe could kind of fill me in on who's sponsoring this and what the more definite date will be.

864
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:09,080
All right, sir. Fine. Major Kehoe?

865
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:20,080
Well, it isn't completely worked out. ABC asked us if we would cooperate and we certainly would with them or any other network or any independent station.

866
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:28,080
They said they would start the series as quickly as possible. They're working on it. They're getting a lot of information and as soon as possible,

867
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,080
I will have them make an announcement of the date ahead of time.

868
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:36,080
But I don't think it'll be within the next two weeks. It's probably to be sometime after that.

869
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,080
Gentlemen, we'll continue our discussion and just a moment.

870
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:44,080
And a reminder that the past portion of contact has been brought to you in cooperation with Boston University.

871
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:56,080
This is Bob Kennedy. You're in contact now. You're on the air.

872
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:57,080
Hello, Bob.

873
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:58,080
Yes, sir.

874
01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:59,080
This is Chris Paywood out in Needham.

875
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:00,080
Yes.

876
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:03,080
And I'd like to ask a question about my science teacher, Mr. Flynn.

877
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:10,080
He claims that within 20 years, approximately, that we will be destroyed by other intelligent beings,

878
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,080
either by contamination or else by antimatter.

879
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:19,080
And he definitely claims that we will not see the turn of the century. I wonder if one of your guests could comment on this.

880
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,080
Okay, I'm sure your science teacher, Mr. Flynn, would like very much to comment on that.

881
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,080
Whether or not he said this in the classroom, I hope you're not kidding us here, fella.

882
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:32,080
Because it could be kind of embarrassing for Mr. Flynn, if not, well, we'll offer Mr. Flynn equal time some night if it's not true.

883
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,080
But gentlemen, do you have any feelings on this particular one?

884
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:39,080
Well, as far as I have been able to determine from my reading of the structure of the atom,

885
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:45,080
I don't think that we're in any danger from the destruction from antimatter as such.

886
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:51,080
And not in our lifetime or in any foreseeable time in the future.

887
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,080
This is Bob Kennedy. You're in contact. You're on the air.

888
01:11:54,080 --> 01:12:04,080
Good evening. Could one of your guests tell me if any of the people who have sighted these objects have been found to have ESP or any other extraordinary sensory powers,

889
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:11,080
which would make these things more visible to them than to people without these powers?

890
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:15,080
Alright, ma'am. Fine. Maybe we'll ask Major Kehoe about one. How about that, Major?

891
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:26,080
Well, we've had a few reports from people who seem to be solid citizens who have apparently ESP to a certain extent,

892
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:33,080
and they've reported being aware of UFO approaches before they actually landed and were sighted.

893
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:36,080
Now, we have never been able to prove any of these cases.

894
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:47,080
However, I would say that 95% or even 99% of the verified factual evidence we have comes from trained aerial observers like the pilots,

895
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,080
and the four tractors, and others that I mentioned while we go.

896
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:56,080
Now, this isn't discrediting people with ESP, but because it is such a controversial subject,

897
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:02,080
we have not used any of those reports in our forthcoming seven-year analysis.

898
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,080
Okay, sir. Bob Kennedy, you're in contact. You're on the air.

899
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:12,080
Yes, sir. My name is Joe Boudina, and I'm heading East Coast Advertising boss in Massachusetts.

900
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,080
Yes, that's everyone's knife for free commercial messages now. What's yours?

901
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:23,080
Yes, and see, one of our trademarks under which we are operating is Skylight.

902
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:40,080
And to reply to Mr. Hayes, a major keyhole, and if you are interested in members of this, you know, who are operating with the UFO and identify flying objects,

903
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:54,080
and actually to bring the technical subject up to date, before we fly, in other words, we are flying aircraft, which has a special sign underneath the aircraft,

904
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,080
and we're spelling a commercial message in nighttime.

905
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:58,080
Uh-huh.

906
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:04,080
And you mean it's like an aircraft that goes around with a message in lights underneath it, huh?

907
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:11,080
This is something new which just came out a couple years ago, and I'm a technical director of this whole operation.

908
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:14,080
Yeah, and you think that some people might be seeing this and assuming it's a UFO?

909
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,080
Possibly, yes.

910
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,080
Well good. Where does this thing fly around now? What are you?

911
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:28,080
Well, not right now, but we are operating from the Manchester and Massachusetts area along an airport.

912
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:40,080
I have seen some of these planes with the night lights, and they are quite spectacular. The lights will come on and go off, and there are some people who are excited by them.

913
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:54,080
I think though that if anyone is close enough to them that they get a good look at it, that they wouldn't be in any doubt in their mind, but what these were from some place on Earth and readily recognizable as being advertising.

914
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:56,080
Mr. Bodino, I think you might recall me.

915
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:05,080
Last summer I made a study of these reports, and I called your firm up, and you were very helpful in this, and some of the reports did turn out to be these skylight advertising planes.

916
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,080
In fact, I saw a number of them myself.

917
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:13,080
Gentlemen, we have just about run out of time. I'd like to say to Major Keyhole, thank you so much for joining us tonight down there in Virginia Major.

918
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:14,080
It's been a great pleasure.

919
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:26,080
And I hope after this report comes out that you're able to make a trip up to Boston. We'd like to have you across the table from us some evening in person, and we'll discuss this report and talk about this fascinating subject once again of UFO.

920
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:27,080
We'd like to very much.

921
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:34,080
Okay, well, let's evade then. Maybe in a month or so we'll have you up here. Get that report out. We'll be very interested in seeing. Send us a copy, please.

922
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,080
Okay, thank you so much.

923
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:40,080
Walt Webb, thank you again for joining us tonight on Contact and Streeter Stewart.

924
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:44,080
Thank you for being our guest and taking time out from your busy duties with WBC News.

925
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:54,080
Tonight we've been talking about UFO. Tomorrow night on Contact we'll be talking about the John Burt Society Anatomy of Protest, the title of a book by J. Alan Royles.

926
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:57,080
Contact is produced by Squire D. Rushnell.